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Moderators: Lizzy, Charlie Angel, eelke

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Door Fenixjuh
#3396855
Angelique schreef:Afbeelding
;D ;D ;D

Nou....
Vorige week viel het alleszins mee, gemiddeld 1 beller per dag.... Vandaag ben ik gek geworden, zelf bandjes ingesproken dat mensen mij maar niet meer mochten bellen en contact op moesten nemen met het algemene telefoonnummer van het RIVM. Via de website van het RIVM wordt weer geadviseerd dat mensen hun huisarts moeten bellen, want het nummer is nogal druk ::)

Nu vanuit de zorggroep de mededeling dat als ik mensen gesproken heb, ik ze niet meer mag adviseren de GGD of het RIVM te bellen, want iedereen zegt hetzelfde en op deze manier eisen mensen teveel van verschillende instanties die hetzelfde verhaal hebben.... :-X

De bijzonderste vandaag: (op spoedlijn nota bene) Ik zit op kantoor met masker op, maar wil geen paniek maken. Ik heb een spuitmasker voor verf, met koolstoffilter, hoge koorts en ik moet hoesten, van het weekend heb ik donaties voor Koningsdag verzamelt en veel handen geschud, heb ik nu corona? ::) ::)
Deze meneer was het schijnbaar niet eens met mijn antwoord dat hij in zo'n geval thuis diende te zijn en bij benauwdheidsklachten opnieuw moest bellen om evt. te laten testen want de baas vond dat hij moest werken.... :-X

Die uitbraak, komt vanzelf wel... :-\
Door Lizzy
#3396857
The Italian government has just decided to lockdown the entire region of Lombardy and many other areas in the north of the country. Basically, like a war zone: No one gets in, no one gets out. For those living outside Italy, might be a little hard to understand what is happening in the country to force a government to take such drastic measures, especially in the era of social media and fake news, so let me try to explain it from the perspective of someone living inside the emergency area.

At the moment that I am writing this post, there are 5.883 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in Italy. CONFIRMED, no bullshit fake news!!! From these cases, 233 have died, 589 have recovered and 5.061 are somewhere in between. Some will surely die and some will recover, no one knows how many. These numbers mean 2 things: The number of infections is growing very fast in Italy, and the death rate is also going up, just look at the numbers to confirm it. With each passing week without controlling the problem, the percentage of dying people is going up. Again, just look at the numbers to confirm it. I might be wrong but I believe in this moment Italy has the highest death rate from COVID-19 in the entire world. Italy has 3.96%, China has 3.83%, Iran has 2.49%. Those are the top 3. Most of the other countries have less than 1% death rate.

Now this is happening because people are looking at this virus has "just like a normal flew, it is only dangerous for old people or people with a weak immune system, I will have no problems surviving it if I catch it". And you are being bombarded over and over and over with this bullshit, by your friends, by the news and by Facebook. So let let me give you a wake up call to reality: You are being told the story wrong. You are being told that ONLY old people and people with week immune systems or other previous conditions are in danger of dying. And it is quite amazing the amount of people that truly believe in this bullshit, even though nowadays many people consider themselves a virology expert with just one click in google ore a Facebook post. But the nude and crude reality is that old people and people with week immune systems or other previous conditions have MORE chances to die. It is this subtle difference between "ONLY" and "MORE" that you need to understand. You still have a considerable chance to die if you catch the virus, even if you are very young and with an amazing immune system, let me explain you why. In many cases (maybe in most cases) you still need oxygen therapy or ventilation and need to be interned with medical assistance to recover and survive, even if you are very young and with an amazing immune system. AND THAT IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM THAT SOMEONE NEEDS TO EXPLAIN TO YOU!!!

There is a lot of disinformation on the internet and news, so in case you are not familiar with the real consequences of the virus, there is a very objective study called “Clinical Characteristics of Coronavirus Disease 2019 in China”, conducted by the China Medical Treatment Expert Group for Covid-19. Let me write you a small excerpt from it: “On admission, lymphocytopenia was present in 83.2% of the patients, thrombocytopenia in 36.2%, and leukopenia in 33.7%. A majority of the patients (58.0%) received intravenous antibiotic therapy, and 35.8% received oseltamivir therapy; oxygen therapy was administered in 41.3% and mechanical ventilation in 6.1%; Mechanical ventilation was initiated in more patients with severe disease than in those with nonsevere disease (noninvasive ventilation, 32.4% vs. 0%; invasive ventilation, 14.5% vs. 0%). Of these 204 patients, 33 (16.2%) were admitted to the ICU, 17 (8.3%) underwent invasive ventilation, and 5 (2.5%) died. Extracorporeal membrane oxygenation was performed in 5 patients (0.5%) with severe disease. The median duration of hospitalization was 12 days. During hospital admission, most of the patients received a diagnosis of pneumonia from a physician (91.1%), followed by ARDS (3.4%) and shock (1.1%). Patients with severe disease had a higher incidence of physician-diagnosed pneumonia than those with nonsevere disease (99.4% vs. 89.5%)”.

Just like a normal flew, right? Did you read the part about the oxygen therapy being administered in 41.3% of the people infected? About the 12 days of average duration of hospitalization? This my friends, is the REAL PROBLEM!!!! No country has thousands and thousands of oxygen masks, ventilators and beds for so many infected people. No doctor or nurse can work 24 hours non-stop per weeks or months, and we need them to save people. Ours are probably working 20 hours per day, and yet it is not nearly enough. This is what is happening in Italy, the Italian health care system is collapsing and that is why such an abnormal number of people are dying. It is not a Chinese problem. It is not an Italian problem. It is your problem too, the virus is already in your country too. Just a few days ago, the situation in Italy was probably not very different from the one your country has right now. Some cases, but nothing too special. We were stupid, we looked at this as being a Chinese problem. We only had a few, very localized cases of infection. Didn't seem like a big problem, so we didn't give it much attention. We were wrong, look where we are now, just a few days after… And unfortunately, I am seeing other countries being equally stupid, thinking this is an Italian problem. This is a global problem, we live in a era where I can easily buy a cheap flight and in a couple of hours I am in the other side of the world. A few days from now, there might be someone in Poland thinking "this is a Swedish problem". That's the way our globalized world is today, the virus doesn't give a shit about frontiers, nationalities, sexual orientation, gender, color of skin, language spoken or any other of that stupid distinctions. Only people make those distinctions, not the virus. I am old enough to have seen the exact same bullshit in the 80's with the HIV. Back then, it was "a gay problem", remember?

So the big problem in Italy right now, and I am sorry if this offends anyone, is not so much the virus itself, it is the stupidity of the Italians. The more important thing they had to do was a very basic thing: Just avoid contact with other people as much as you can, stay at home as much as you can until all this go away. But the government closed the schools and public gatherings, so they all went shopping because staying at home is boring... Then they closed most of the public spaces and shopping centers, so Italians went on vacation and skiing because there is nothing better to do, spreading even more the virus. Now they have locked down around 25% of the Italian territory and thousands and thousands of people are running to the train stations to get out of the red zone, because of course, staying inside your fucking home is not an option, so the effect this new measure is having is to spread even more the infection. Soon the entire country will be infected. What is happening with COVID-19 in Italy is mostly a consequence of Italian people attitudes and behaviors.

MYSELF INCLUDED!!! I am not infected and I did not take particularly risky behaviors, but looking back, I also did not take this virus very seriously in the last weeks. I had 4 cat shows where I was supposed to judge cancelled, and I thought: "well, that's a little radical...". Then I had 7 flights cancelled in 2 days and I thought: "those stupid idiots, I am never flying with that airline company ever again!!!". Every now and then I looked at all the mass hysteria around the COVID-19, and I thought: "I have no patience for this and better things to do". By the way, quite frankly, there really is a lot of mass hysteria around this virus. Both negative (it's the end of the world) and positive (not even worth worrying about it). Anyway, that’s why I am writing this post right now to all my friends outside Italy, so you don’t have to be lockdown in your own countries a few weeks from now because you didn't take the COVID-19 very seriously. You can't work, you can't even go out for your normal every morning coffee, you can't do anything. Right now my wife is in Finland and I am not quite sure how she will return home. If my parents or my daughter have an emergency in Portugal, I can't go there to help them. Pretty soon we will run out of food inside the house, both for humans and animals, so we will have to go out to buy it, risking to find a supermarket full of empty shelves, or catching the virus in the process. It is a really depressing situation and I truly don’t recommend it to anyone.

Basically, the virus is not spreading like wildfire in Italy because it is different from any other virus we have ever seen before. This is happening because a lot of people seem to be doing everything they possibly can to spread it. Not on purpose, just sheer stupidity and irresponsibility. This might seem totally ridiculous and surreal, but the measures that the Italian government is taking are not to handle the virus itself, are to handle the irresponsibility of the Italians. And that is also why this government measures in Italy are all failing, and will keep on failing. Because no matter what measures the government takes, no matter how much information people have available, many Italians still choose to adopt irresponsible behaviors. None of this would be necessary if Italians would just simply adopt a responsible behavior for a few weeks. Let me empathize this part: A FEW WEEKS!!!! No one is asking them to radically change their lifestyles from here to eternity. Just “lay low” for a few weeks, that’s all.

So, my advice to all my friends living in other countries:
- Please, please, please, don’t make the same mistake of underestimating this virus just because “it is like a normal flew and it is only dangerous for old people or people with a weak immune system”. You also don't need to go into panic, that doesn't help much. But YOU DO NEED to be intelligent on handling this situation before the health care system of your country collapses. Yes, I know you are young and healthy, so in theory you have good chances to survive the virus without much problems. But you don't just go to the pharmacy and buy a medicine to cure this, like a normal flew. What if when you catch it, there isn't a ventilator and/or a bed available for you? What if your doctors and nurses are so tired from working 20 hour shifts non-stop that there is no one available to assist you? And by then it is not just you that is infected: it is also your children, your husband, your old parents, your entire family. There are good chances one of you might die in a scenario like this. And it is not a scenario from a movie: it is happening in Italy right now, in 08/03/2020. Just don't take the risk and simply adopt a responsible behavior for a few weeks. If you can avoid the risk of infection, JUST DO IT!!!
For a short follow up on this post, I strongly recommend everyone to read this post where you can see a video of the scenario I have described before:

Every day I will update this post with the official statistics for Italy. The current situation is as follow:
07/03: 5.883 Confirmed cases
08/03: 7.375 Confirmed cases
09/03: 9.172 Confirmed cases

07/03: 233 Dead
08/03: 366 Dead
09/03: 463 Dead

07/03: 589 Recovered
08/03: 622 Recovered
09/03: 724 Recovered

07/03: 3.96% Death Rate
08/03: 4.96% Death Rate
09/03: 5.05% Death Rate

Confirmed cases means people that have been tested positive. For all we know, there can be twice as many asymptomatic walking around and spreading even more the virus.

You can confirm this numbers and see the official numbers for your own country in this map: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps ... 7b48e9ecf6
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Door Hylos
#3396859
Ik zou het liefst ook thuis blijven, mede omdat ik ook gewoon vanuit huis mijn werk kan doen (deels).
Zit nu sowieso al sinds vrijdag ziek thuis (buik/maag toestanden) maar "moet" eigenlijk morgen wel weer aan het werk. Ben in december ook al ziek geweest namelijk. :-\

Dat ist em he, het wordt van je verwacht en dan ga je maar. Misschien tegen beter weten in. Je wilt geen scheve gezichten of dat men vind dat je je aanstelt. Ik hoef er nu iig geen corona bij, gezien ik al ziek ben.
Maar nog langer thuis blijven gaat ook niet.

Gekke wereld is het, soms zijn we echt knettergek met zn allen.
Ze zouden iedereen die thuis kan werken moeten verplichten thuis te blijven. Alle evenementen aflossen, sport aflossen etc. Dat zijn toch maatregelen? En dat is toch zo erg ook niet?
"Schud geen hand en geef geen 3 zoenen" pff. :-X
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Door Angelique
#3396860
Hylos schreef: di 10 mar 2020, 16:53 Ik zou het liefst ook thuis blijven, mede omdat ik ook gewoon vanuit huis mijn werk kan doen (deels).
Zit nu sowieso al sinds vrijdag ziek thuis (buik/maag toestanden) maar "moet" eigenlijk morgen wel weer aan het werk. Ben in december ook al ziek geweest namelijk. :-\

Dat ist em he, het wordt van je verwacht en dan ga je maar. Misschien tegen beter weten in. Je wilt geen scheve gezichten of dat men vind dat je je aanstelt. Ik hoef er nu iig geen corona bij, gezien ik al ziek ben.
Maar nog langer thuis blijven gaat ook niet.

Gekke wereld is het, soms zijn we echt knettergek met zn allen.
Ze zouden iedereen die thuis kan werken moeten verplichten thuis te blijven. Alle evenementen aflossen, sport aflossen etc. Dat zijn toch maatregelen? En dat is toch zo erg ook niet?
"Schud geen hand en geef geen 3 zoenen" pff. :-X

Waarom gaat dat niet? Omdat je buiktoestanden niet aan de buitenkant ziet ofzo? Als je half platgereden in het zkh lag hadden ze ook een andere oplossing moeten bedenken.

Inmiddels zijn in Brabant al de voetbalwedstrijden e.d. afgelast.
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Door Angelique
#3396861
Schokkend in Tilburg. Zorgmensen getest die niet ziek waren en er toch 28 positieven uitgehaald. Als je geen symptomen had zou testen zinloos zijn hebben we tot nu toe geleerd..... :-\
Door Lizzy
#3396862
Angelique schreef: di 10 mar 2020, 17:14 Schokkend in Tilburg. Zorgmensen getest die niet ziek waren en er toch 28 positieven uitgehaald. Als je geen symptomen had zou testen zinloos zijn hebben we tot nu toe geleerd..... :-\
Verbaast het jou? Mij echt totaal niet. Met de wijze en snelheid waarop het zich verspreid wisten jij en ik 3 weken geleden al dat je heus niet ziek hoeft te zijn om het te verspreiden. En idem voor "geen symptomen = testen zinloos". Kun je je nog herinneren dat die politieke knakkert (God, wat is zijn naam nou ook alweer??) die vent in Iran had staan knuffelen? Daarvan riep die Jaap van Dissel gelijk "hij is getest en heeft geen Corona". Ik dacht toen "OK gast, jij verlult je nu echt mega. Want geen symptomen = niet testen want dat is zinloos want die test negatief? En niemand die het opvalt". Mij. Mij viel het op. Ik wist toen al dat we genaaid werden.
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Door Kaio
#3396864
ja of deze hadden heel milde symptomen.
En dan vragen ze zich af hoe het zich in brabant verspreid heeft? Want ze hadden geen contact met iemand die recentelijk uit italie kwam of die symptomen had....Of wel alleen wisten ze dat niet.
Kan me best voorstellen dat er mensen terug uit italie zijn gekomen, die bijv op bezoek in het ziekenhuis zijn geweest daarna. Die zich 2 dagen een beetje minder voelden, 4 keer geniest hebben, 5 keer wat gekucht. En dus klaar, hoefde je ook echt niet aan iets ernstigers te denken. Maar ja dat net terwijl er iemand in de buurt stond die er wel degelijk goed ziek van is geworden....
WAT RAAR ZEG???
Door Lizzy
#3396865
Blok. Blok heet tie, die stond te knuffelen. Ik zie die geirriteerde smoel van die Jaap nog zo voor me " >:( >:( >:( , hij is getest en heeft geen Corona >:( >:( >:( " toen ie er op aan werd gesproken.
Door Lizzy
#3396867
Kaio schreef: di 10 mar 2020, 17:32 Weet je ze hebben gewoon niet de capaciteit op iedereen te gaan testen, want we zijn immers heel goed voorbereid :P
Nou. Dat dus. Maar weet je, ik heb dan toch liever dat zo'n gladjakker zegt "we hebben op dit moment niet de capaciteit om iedereen te testen en daarom doen we nu de gevallen die het meest aannemelijk zijn". Want NU voelen wij ons in de maling genomen en NU word ik pas echt onrustig. Ik houd er namelijk niet van als er tegen me gelogen wordt.
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Door Angelique
#3396868
Lizzy schreef: di 10 mar 2020, 17:27 Verbaast het jou? Mij echt totaal niet. Met de wijze en snelheid waarop het zich verspreid wisten jij en ik 3 weken geleden al dat je heus niet ziek hoeft te zijn om het te verspreiden. En idem voor "geen symptomen = testen zinloos". Kun je je nog herinneren dat die politieke knakkert (God, wat is zijn naam nou ook alweer??) die vent in Iran had staan knuffelen? Daarvan riep die Jaap van Dissel gelijk "hij is getest en heeft geen Corona". Ik dacht toen "OK gast, jij verlult je nu echt mega. Want geen symptomen = niet testen want dat is zinloos want die test negatief? En niemand die het opvalt". Mij. Mij viel het op. Ik wist toen al dat we genaaid werden.

Blok...die van...#hokblokop :biggrin2: ik had dat niet meegekregen dat hij getest zou zijn.

Maar het verbaasd me niet nee, aangezien de who alwel erkende dat je kan besmetten als je asymptomatisch bent, bleef het vreemd dat de rivm dit zo strikt bleef ontkennen. :-\

Het lijkt er in ieder geval sterk op dat het hek nu wel van de dam is.
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