Worden honden vals van vers vlees?!

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Worden honden vals van vers vlees?!

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Bite Me
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Worden honden vals van vers vlees?!

Berichtdoor Bite Me » Vr 17 Dec 2004, 13:01

Mijn huisgenoot is bang dat honden vals
worden van vers vlees.
Ik zelf denk niet dat dat het geval is, anders zou ik het ook niet geven aan mijn hond.
Kan iemand hier iets meer over uitleggen, ik heb hem al een aantal dingen laten lezen over vers vlees en ook het stukje " de waarheid omtrent hondenbrokken"
Dat van de hondenbrokken gelooft hij overigens wel hoor, ik wil hem graag alleen wat meer overtuigen wat het verse vlees betreft.
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sylvia
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Re:Worden honden vals van vers vlees?!

Berichtdoor sylvia » Vr 17 Dec 2004, 13:09

tja........

Als je vriend nu eens heel goed nadenkt dan weet hij het antwoord zelf al denk ik, de enige reden dat een hond vals zou zijn is door een verkeerde opvoeding /socialisatie of een hersentumor
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Re:Worden honden vals van vers vlees?!

Berichtdoor Lizzy » Vr 17 Dec 2004, 13:10

Tjonge, dit bakenpraatje is werkelijk al zo oud als Methusalem! Waarom zou een hond vals worden, volgens jouw huisgenoot? Kan hij/zij daar een goede en wetenschappelijke verklaring voor geven?

En het antwoord daarop is natuurlijk: nee.

Of denkt jouw huisgenoot dat we hier met ongeveer 1380 leden x gemiddeld 2 honden = 2760 valse honden zitten? (vers vlees voerders die niet lid van Barfplaats niet meegerekend. Ook de vers vlees voerders in andere landen niet mee gerekend. In totaal, wereldwijd kom je op miljoenen honden).

Of denkt jouw huisgenoot dat een wolf vals is?
Laatst gewijzigd door Lizzy op Vr 17 Dec 2004, 13:29, 1 keer totaal gewijzigd.
Ollie
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Re:Worden honden vals van vers vlees?!

Berichtdoor Ollie » Vr 17 Dec 2004, 13:14

Hihi was laatst ook iemand die dat aan mij vroeg!

Hoe komen ze erop! ???
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Re:Worden honden vals van vers vlees?!

Berichtdoor Sonja » Vr 17 Dec 2004, 13:29

Ik word ook niet bloeddorstig van een broodje prepare. Dus waarom zou mijn hond dat wel worden?
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Re:Worden honden vals van vers vlees?!

Berichtdoor An » Vr 17 Dec 2004, 18:34

Ja je weet wat ze zeggen he...eens bloed geproefd....


Tuuuuuuuurlijk is dat onzin.
gonny

Re:Worden honden vals van vers vlees?!

Berichtdoor gonny » Vr 17 Dec 2004, 18:40

hahaha laatst zei een kennis van me ook: geef jij ze ECHTE botten!! :o :o Daar worden ze vals van hoor!!!

nou ik geef nog geen eens antwoord op dat soort opmerkingen.... ;)
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Re:Worden honden vals van vers vlees?!

Berichtdoor An » Vr 17 Dec 2004, 20:15

Ik zeg meestal ja hoor als je niet oppast vreet die je arm van je lijf hoor! ;D

Ik heb zo is een goeie gehoord...een hond had een rauwe beefsteak te pakken gekregen en sindsdien hapte hij stukken uit de levende koeien die bij hen liepen....yeah rigth.... ::)
gonny

Re:Worden honden vals van vers vlees?!

Berichtdoor gonny » Vr 17 Dec 2004, 20:23

An schreef:Ik zeg meestal ja hoor als je niet oppast vreet die je arm van je lijf hoor! ;D

Ik heb zo is een goeie gehoord...een hond had een rauwe beefsteak te pakken gekregen en sindsdien hapte hij stukken uit de levende koeien die bij hen liepen....yeah rigth.... ::)
hahahaha het verklaart wel ineens waarom Boris mn leren bank opvreet... ;D ;D
(doet ie niet meer hoor ;))
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Re:Worden honden vals van vers vlees?!

Berichtdoor ~anna~ » Vr 17 Dec 2004, 21:30

Van de week had ik het nog met iemand erover dat honden een konijntje ook erg lekker vinden :P
Nou ik kreeg te horen dat ga ik ze echt niet geven want straks gaan ze er zelf naar op zoek ::)
ik zei nee juist niet ;D
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Re:Worden honden vals van vers vlees?!

Berichtdoor Truus » Vr 17 Dec 2004, 23:01

Dus dan liepen we vorige week met 34 valse honden tijdens de Barfwandeling :o ;D ;D ;D
Wat een onzin zeg :-\
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Re:Worden honden vals van vers vlees?!

Berichtdoor tieneke » Za 18 Dec 2004, 00:08

Truus schreef:Dus dan liepen we vorige week met 34 valse honden tijdens de Barfwandeling :o ;D ;D ;D
Wat een onzin zeg :-\

De toevallige passanten onderweg zijn nu nog niet teruggevonden :P :P ;D ;D
202spots

Re:Worden honden vals van vers vlees?!

Berichtdoor 202spots » Za 18 Dec 2004, 02:06

Bite Me schreef:Mijn huisgenoot is bang dat honden vals
worden van vers vlees.
Ik zelf denk niet dat dat het geval is, anders zou ik het ook niet geven aan mijn hond.
Kan iemand hier iets meer over uitleggen, ik heb hem al een aantal dingen laten lezen over vers vlees en ook het stukje " de waarheid omtrent hondenbrokken"
Dat van de hondenbrokken gelooft hij overigens wel hoor, ik wil hem graag alleen wat meer overtuigen wat het verse vlees betreft.


De link was te lang en alle 2 op 1 page was te lang...
MYTHS ABOUT RAW FEEDING
MYTH: RAW MEAT MAKES A DOG BLOODTHIRSTY AND GIVES THEM A TASTE FOR MEAT.


What does this mean, exactly? How does feeding a dog what it was designed to be fed make it bloodthirsty? By nature the dog is a carnivorous predator. A dog that chases things (with or without killing them) is just being true to what it is: a dog. Feeding a dog meat isn't going to turn a dog into some vicious animal that will attack every living thing that moves.


People fail to understand that dogs are carnivorous predators. They are supposed to have a taste for meat. They are supposed to go out and hunt their own food. With the domestication of livestock and introduction of smaller pets, this became undesirable. It is interesting to note that herding breeds have coexisted peacefully with the animals they herded without savaging or killing them, even while these dogs were fed raw meat and bones from the very same kinds of animals they were guarding. People bred and selected dogs that could coexist peacefully with such animals but still retained enough prey drive to do things like retrieve and herd. This is why dogs retrieve balls and chase toys and animals that move quickly.


The dog is, by nature, a predator, and will chase other animals because it is hard-wired to do so, not because it is bloodthirsty or has a taste for meat in the human definition of the words. Feeding raw does nothing to change this. If the dog is full and happy with the raw meaty bones it is eating at home, why would it go out and kill things? It has no need to. If a dog is going out and killing other animals despite having its nutritional needs met at home, the link exists more strongly between the human-dog relationship than the diet-dog relationship (one "exception" to this exists and will be discussed later). Dogs can be trained to not harm or bother prey-type animals. The dog should be respecting its human's leadership and should be able to sufficiently restrain itself (although with some breeds--like hounds and terriers, for example--and some high-drive individuals, this can be difficult to do regardless of diet. All dogs are individuals; some have high prey drives, and some could care less about moving things.). People would much rather blame the diet (that my dog gets meat with his kibble) than the fact that their negligence and the flaws in their relationship with their dog resulted in the death of another animal.


Yet the "raw meat-dog goes out killing things" link exists very strongly in people's minds. This has been helped by the "discovery" that dogs are omnivores (which they aren't! See omnivore myth). When a dog is being fed an inappropriate, grain-based diet, it will undoubtedly react more strongly to being fed what it was supposed to be fed as opposed to it being fed correctly (a raw prey model diet) from the get-go. So this means that someone who feeds their dogs raw meat occasionally and a crappy kibble the rest of the time might have a dog that will go out and hunt for its own food to eat real meat instead of that crappy kibble. In a sense, yes, they've given the dog a "taste for meat"--a taste for the real food it should be eating. But if the dog was fed appropriately, it wouldn't need to go out and hunt. And it's a dog, so it is supposed to hunt! Does this mean adding raw meat to a dog's kibble will make it bloodthirsty? Of course not! There are thousands of people who add raw meat to their dogs' kibbled food and have no problems with "bloodthirsty" dogs. But if you are going to add meat to your dog's kibble, why not just go all the way and nix the processed food? On a diet of raw meaty bones, the dog doesn't have any need to go out and find meat.


People are quick to blame the diet of meat rather than investigate the surroundings. Does the dog hunt regularly? Why is the dog given opportunity to hunt? Why does the dog feel a need to hunt? Is the dog actively submitting to and respecting the owner's leadership? What is the dog fed normally? Does the hunting behavior vary with what it is fed, or is it constant? Is there another dog it hunts with? What do they hunt, and how often? Can it be a "behavioral" issue or a relational issue (obviously, a dog left outside and neglected will be more likely to fend for itself)? What about temperament issues (some dogs are confirmed livestock killers or pleasure killers, regardless of diet)?


Humans were the ones that deemed the killing behavior as inappropriate and unwanted. Humans tend to expect dogs to exhibit only the delightful behaviors that benefit us, and to act as little humans in fur coats. But when the dog acts in accordance to its canine behavior, people get upset and think the animal is "messed up" or is a "bad dog." They don't work through the behavior and don't teach the dog the desirable behavior, and then chain it in the backyard or dump it at a shelter. Or they don't want to take the time to feed a raw diet or work through the relationship issues, and thus condemn their dog to a lifetime of sub-optimal health or an inadequate relationship riddled with "problems" because they were too selfish to devote the necessary time to improving the dog's health or improving their relationship.


There are thousands of dogs being fed raw meat and bones with no ill effects. These dogs coexist quite peacefully with children, cats, rabbits, and livestock without even considering a "bloodthirsty" thought. Dogs fed raw have no need to go out and hunt to supplement their diet with real food; they're already eating real food. As for the dog eating kibble and meat: it's like giving a kid a taste of steak and then expecting him to continue eating Total cereal every day. I'd go looking for the steak, wouldn't you?


If you are concerned about your dog eating meat and then attacking your cats, children, or small pets, you don't need to worry. Feeding raw meaty bones isn't going to turn your animal into this half-crazed bloodthirsty maniac. The dog should recognize the kids, the cats, and the small pets as a) part of its own family, and/or b) under the protection of the alpha leader (which should be you!). If people tell you the dog is going to become bloodthirsty or will have a taste for meat, ask them to explain that overused cliche. If you use those cliches, take time to think through what they mean and whether or not that is really a logical thought process. In reality, your dog is much more likely to exhibit behavioral changes of fear and/or aggression after receiving its rabies shot than become a half-crazed bloodthirsty hunter by eating the raw meaty bones it was designed to eat.
202spots

Re:Worden honden vals van vers vlees?!

Berichtdoor 202spots » Za 18 Dec 2004, 02:07

MYTHS ABOUT RAW FEEDING
MYTH: RAW MEATY BONES MAKE DOGS AGGRESSIVE TOWARD PEOPLE.


Here's the scenario: the dog has just been switched from kibble and is enjoying a nice meaty bone. When approached while eating, the dog growls and even snaps at the person approaching it. Or it fights over food with the other dogs in the household. Either way, it never used to do this before when it was on kibble, and the owners are beginning to seriously question feeding raw. They often will contact a trainer, who "indentifies" the source of the problem as the meaty bones and will thus take the easy way out--removing the meaty bone "removes" the aggression without addressing the underlying behavioral or relational issues.


View this situation as a kid guarding a steak as opposed to guarding a bowl of Cheerios. A juicy steak is a higher value food, just as a meaty bone is seen as something of higher value than a bowl of kibble. Because it is of higher value, the dog will be more protective of it. This is simple canine behavior.


But, if your dog is growling at you, its leader, this indicates a problem in your relationship. He is no longer respecting or trusting in your leadership. He is viewing that bone as his, not yours (which it is), and is telling you that he is willing to defend it at all costs. He needs to learn that you are the bringer of resources and the "alpha". He should relinquish his bone without fuss when you ask him. And he should also realize that you aren't in competition with him for his food. This is a touchy issue, but the basic premise is that if your dog growls and becomes possessive of his food, your relationship needs reordering. Does this mean you run up to your dog while he is eating, slap him in the face or slam him on his back in an attempt to dominate him? Or confronting him and yanking on his collar to 'show him who is boss'? NO!! These only worsen the situation by telling the dog a) you are unpredictable and can't be trusted, and b) you are trying to compete for his food. The key is to not let yourself get in these situations in the first place. Work on kind, humane obedience training and on teaching him that relinquishing his possessions to you is a good thing. Also keep in mind that some dogs may growl initially because they are afraid this is just temporary and don't want you to take away this high value object. In this case, give the dog time to adjust to its new diet; you may very well see the "food possessive" behavior disappear. If not, it is time to begin training immediately. For some training suggestions on this issue, click here.


If your dog is already possessive with its kibble, fix the problem of resource guarding first before switching your dog to raw. See Brian Kilcommons' Good Owners, Great Dogs book, pg 248-249, for a humane, common sense approach to dealing with resource guarding.


Since a raw meaty bone is worth fighting for, dogs may fight with each other. The simplest solution is to feed the dogs separately in their crates, in different rooms, or in the same room but tethered to opposite sides of the room far away from each other. Just use common sense, and don't keep trying to force the dogs to "get along" at dinner time. Make sure to pick up any leftovers before releasing the dogs.


Raw meaty bones will not make a dog aggressive toward humans to the point of blatantly attacking people. A dog that unnecessarily growls at or that bites people has a behavioral or temperament issue that must be addressed immediately. Aggressiveness toward humans is behavioral, temperamental, or induced through rabies vaccines (see a certified homeopath for help in reducing the aggressiveness brought on by the vaccine), but it NOT food related. Dogs have been bred for thousands of years to be human companions, to be in close relationships with and in submission to humans. Feeding a dog raw meat is not sufficient to override thousands of years of selective breeding.

If your dog suddenly shows food possessiveness, be patient, understanding, and firm. Ask and insist kindly that the dog join you to work through this speedbump in your relationship. Avoid taking the easy way out by just not feeding raw, and you will be richly rewarded with a healthier, happy dog and a deeper relationship.
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Re:Worden honden vals van vers vlees?!

Berichtdoor Marion » Za 18 Dec 2004, 13:50

Een tijd terug zei ook iemand heel wijs (ahum) tegen mij; van vlees worden je honden vals.....
Ik zei toen; ohjaaaa Ik geef Tommie altijd vlees hoor (Tommie is de minst valse hond die je maar kan bedenken) Toen was het even stil en zeiden ze; ja maar het is alleen bij rood vlees. Waarop ik weer heel wijs zei: oh maar hij krijgt ook rood vlees hoor ;D
waarop ze de grote wijsheid in pacht hadden:
Het geldt ook niet voor zo'n klein hondje, maar als je een rotweiler vlees gaat geven........ hahahahahahaha Ik kwam niet meer bij ::)
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